FROM Part 9:FROM
KAN wrote:
BeyondBT,
BeyondBT wrote:"As I stated in an earlier letter, the absence of evidence does not bother me as much as the massive contradictory evidence.
Could you possible point me to some of this massive contradictory evidence. Which articles or points on the Talk Reason site do you consider massively contradictory?"
There are many things in Torah (numerous historical anachronism, like Canaanites during the time of Abraham, etc, etc,) and the oral tradition (like the Seder Olam chronology of Persia) that are contradicted by an enormous amount of evidence but the biggest and most significant contradiction is the FLOOD. The sources come from every major discipline and are not in one place. Nonetheless I present a brief summary below:
Egyptian and Assyrian history has an unbroken chain of monarchies and civilizations from 3000 BCE to the present, with no room for a flood that supposedly destroyed all life in the Near East (or, at a minimum, in Mesopotamia) c. 2105 BCE, the date derived from the Torah chronology. There is no mention of the Flood in these records of Egyptian or Mesopotamian civilizations which existed at the time and the physical evidence (e.g., inscriptions, among many other items) is staggering. There is no longer any room for doubt by any serious scholar. Even Modern Orthodox Jewish scholars agree. The geological and genetic evidence (no genetic evidence that we descend from the 5 survivors), which is the most compelling on the issue, is also in agreement. See http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html#georecord. Please start at section 5 as I do not believe the prior sections are relevant from a messorah point of view.
Remember that the entire period is accounted for in tremendous detail, supported by over one million artifacts and the evidence for continuous, large-scale civilization in Mesopotamia and Egypt is "harder" evidence than our chain of tradition. There is no way that the descendents of Noach could have repopulated Egypt 200 years after a universally-fatal flood and restarted the culture, language, writing system, religion, etc. The very idea is absurd.
Rest assured that scholars in this area are "at each other's throats," and are quick to find flaws in, and attack, each other's theories. Nevertheless, there is universal consensus as to what was NOT happening c. 2105 BCE, viz., "the Flood." In summary, the idea that there was a massive flood that destroyed civilization in Mesopotamia and/or Egypt c. 2105 BCE is universally considered absurd.
Also, the Exodus also has no extra-biblical corroboration. No scholar believes that an Exodus occurred as described in the Torah. NONE. Even FRUM (he is one of the few-most stop being frum during the process of their education specifically because of the evidence) Dead Sea Scrolls scholar Lawrence Shiffman, when interviewed by the Biblical Archaeology Review acknowledges that Shemos isn't 100% true: He states "I happen to believe there was some kind of Exodus." Some kind of Exodus?
The lack of evidence calls into question the Biblical account, but it is not as overwhelming as the flood and I can probably live with the lack of proof. Another issue is the existence of modern man over ten thousand years before Adam even existed. Who were these men? They made beautiful cave paintings and had elaborate religious ceremonies, including burial. There are so many issues. I would need to take a few weeks of work to write them down. If you were familiar with all the scholarship it would be much easier to have this discussion. I think the problem is that Frum people are indoctrinated with a very strong presumption that they have the truth and therefore they do not bother to engage in a sincere and genuine search for truth. Most are unfortunately quite ignorant and consequently do not have the vaguest idea of the issues.
